«Thinking fast and slow» is the book on Marco Minniti’s desk at the Viminale, where his ministry, the Ministry of Interior, is based. Daniel Kahneman’s book, which was awarded a Nobel Prize in 2002, explains “why sometimes we act following our instinct and other times after thorough reflection and thinking.  

On the eve of the G7 of Interior Ministers, which opens today in Ischia under the Italian Presidency, for Minniti it is time to tackle cyber-security, by “thinking and acting quickly” to face three threats. Number one threat is ISIS strength online, then the possibility that former fighters of the Islamic States land on our coasts, and finally, the possible threats on our elections next Spring. “In terms of cybersecurity, we’ve put in place an infrastructure to defend ourselves. And we won’t be using it only for the elections.” 

Because the enemy is still very powerful and, after the fall of Mosul and Raqqa, it is the Web the stronghold of the Islamic State, the last ground of clash with Jihadism. 

This G7 summit opens a few hours after the fall of Raqqa, the capital of the Islamic state. Is it really over?  

“When we were initially planning this meeting, we could not have even imagined that Ischia would have been the first international event in which the 7 countries would discuss the war on terrorism following the territorial and military defeat of the Islamic State. And we know how “owning its own territory” was important for Is, the first terrorist organization in history to become a state. With the fall of Raqqa, ‘only’ three years after the proclamation of the caliphate, this aspect is closed. 

So the war is won?  

“The Islamic State has been through a big military reversal but is not defeated, not yet. The Fall of Raqqa does not reduce its capacity for terrorist attacks and its irreducible challenges to democracies and the world in general. 

Paradoxically, is it possible that fighters from Raqqa could become even more dangerous for us, and our cities because they don’t have a physical place where they can organize themselves?  

“The risk does not change in itself, we are not facing communicating vessels: Many of them are leaving Raqqa and are coming here. Things are not that simple. We shouldn’t forget that in 2016, before the fall of Mosul, we had what was later called the “Ramadan of blood”. The problem is different. 

Which is?  

“One of the fundamental elements of the Islamic State was its capacity to count on the greatest foreign legion in modern times. We’re talking about 25-30 thousand fighters coming from 100 countries around the world. A big chunk of them are probably dead, so these numbers are probably obsolete. But a part of them will go back home, and that’s a theme we’ll talk about at the G7. 

Could they board migrant boats? Is it a possibility?  

“We have to distinguish the former and the later. Even before the territorial collapse of the Islamic State is was though to use migration channels to infiltrate cells and commit a terrorist attack.” 

Too Risky?  

Exactly, they don’t want to risk their precious asset, a cell of trained fighters, on a boat in the middle the Mediterranean. Now it’s different, there’s a turning point. They’re running away, they’re on their way and many are on their own. It’s a Diaspora that can certainly use the roads of human trafficking to come back to Europe. 

Maybe, now, somebody in Europe will listen to Italy?  

“We’ve been telling for months that the Northern border of Libya is now the Southern border of Europe, and that’s where foreign fighters can return from their battlefield in Syria and Iraq. It’s a crucial theme, but we’re optimistic that now they’ll listen to what we say. Border controls are starting to be effective: We’ve seen a decrease of 25 percent of boats coming to our coast and 35 percent from Libya. We’re consolidating agreements with Chad, Niger, and Mali.  

We’ll also talk about this tomorrow at the summit because everybody’s goal is to avoid ‘safe havens’ for terrorists in North Africa. We’re working on many different levels and they’re starting to listen to us, and it is no coincidence that the discussion in Berna in November will take place between the EU-North African Group. 

What will you do with the terrorists that will get caught upon arrival?  

“In fact, it’s not only a security problem. We also need to develop a deradicalization plan. These young fighters fought, but many of them also found a family within the Islamic State, there are children involved, their sons. In Ischia, we’ll talk about that and Italy, thanks to the agreement we signed with Islamic groups months ago, has something to say. Deradicalization is easier if we can count on institutions and associations representing the majority of Islamists in Italy. 

The novelty of this G7 summit is that you’ll be sitting next to representatives from Google, Twitter, Facebook, and Microsoft. What are you expecting from there partners who, until now, have not been cooperating meaningfully?  

“The Islamic state is an organization able to mix archaic rules and ruthlessness modernity in the use of the Internet. The Internet has been their main mobilization tool around the world and is behind about 70 percent of conversions to radical Islam, it is a fundamental tool of recruitment, and of course propaganda.” 

Ok, but how are you planning to convince these big players of the Internet to put an end to this?  

“The fact that they came to the summit is a big first step, we didn’t expect this awareness. Our goal is to build an alliance between governments and providers against terrorism. We need to find a way to intervene without jeopardizing the democratic opening offered by social media and access to the Internet. 

Concretely, how are you planning to do that?  

“Together, we have to find a way to automatically block this type of content. Technically, it is something possible. The Islamic state has used the Internet and contaminated it with “malware of terror.” Providers have to help us stopping their “malware” with an automatic antivirus. We don’t want to impose anything; we need a collaborative spirit to be successful. 

Another great threat to democracies comes from attacks, often organized by foreign powers, which target electoral processes or companies. I’m thinking, for example, to what happened in the United States during Trump’s election. We will vote in Italy in a few months, are we ready?  

“After the Monti directive in 2013, we now have the Gentiloni directive on cyberdefense. It is a protection based on three joint-forces to defend our system. The first one, of course, is based on intelligence, armed forces, postal police and the DIS that coordinates everything. 

And then?  

“not many people know, we’ve developed an alliance with the academic world, with 500 Italian teachers and a high number of faculties that will keep us updated. 

500 watchmen?  

“Not watchmen, but they are helping us with the theoretical aspect of it. 

And then?  

“We’re betting on young people’s brain. We are selecting a digital vanguard even before University admission because the rapport with the Internet is inversely proportional to age.” 

And that’s it? Are you sure?  

“We’re are not aware as of now of any threatening elements, there’s nothing to make us believe there’s a threat to our election. But, as I said, we are not static; we have an “infrastructural protection”. 

A referendum is taking place in the region of Lombardy and Veneto for their autonomy, a project brought forward by the political party Lega Nord. Looking at what happened in Catalonia, is there a risk of escalation that would threaten our national unity?  

“They are not secessionist referendums, they are questions fully compatible with the constitution. Interested regions have developed a protocol of cooperation with the Ministry of Interior. It is possible that there will be disagreement with the content, but in these referendums, there is nothing that evokes a threat to national unity.” 

While the interview is coming to an end, a screen next to the Minister switches to an image of the murder of journalist Daphne Caruana Galizia in Malta. Minniti does not want to say anything about the investigation, on whether he has any idea of who placed the bomb. But he says “it is an upsetting death that appeals to Europe as a whole. Maltese authorities have to give an uncompromising answer to this homicide because it is not only a national affair: it is challenging fundamental principles on which Europe is built.” 

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